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 Post subject: Wallace commits to Celtics
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:24 pm 
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"An NBA source said tonight forward Rasheed Wallace has committed to sign with the Celtics Wednesday, the first day free agents are eligible to sign."

Great pickup for the bench. Wallace offers a presence they lost when Posey left. A big man who can play along side Pierce and Garnett, that can shoot from distance.

I like it.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 4:15 pm 
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Not a fan of this move because it means Davis will leave. Where does this deal make them better? Wallace is 6'10" but he lives on the perimeter, is 35 and is somewhat of a head case whereas Davis is willing to bang in the paint, is (I think) 24, and other than pushing some kid has never been a problem.

I am also not a huge fan of (should it happen) the Grant deal. Danny Boy is essentially looking to sure up the bench with two aging perimeter guys. No true 4/5 off the bench who brings a defensive/physical presence, and they still have House as the number one back up to the one spot. This team is not any better than last year's squad. I am not in the camp that the bench is solidified now.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 4:32 pm 
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i assume its all salary related. davis could only have been had on a longer term deal and they want the flexibility.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 4:35 pm 
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jabanga wrote:
i assume its all salary related. davis could only have been had on a longer term deal and they want the flexibility.


For what though? Allen is off the books next year, Pierce after that and so on, they will have flexibility down the road but I don't care for the "well, we can sign some big name in a year or two" philosophy. Yeah, or you could be in a situation where no one is available and you have a largely junk lineup and you are overpaying for role players because you are in dire need of players on your roster.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 4:39 pm 
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Large Farva wrote:
I am also not a huge fan of (should it happen) the Grant deal. Danny Boy is essentially looking to sure up the bench with two aging perimeter guys. No true 4/5 off the bench who brings a defensive/physical presence, and they still have House as the number one back up to the one spot. This team is not any better than last year's squad. I am not in the camp that the bench is solidified now.

I'm not convinced of this, but one thing I've heard regarding the Hill signing is that he might be looked at to, in part, fill the back-up point guard role. For years, he was a point-forward of sorts with the Pistons and Magic. He did something similar last year with the Suns when Nash would take a break.

I can see it from a standpoint of running the half-court offense, but I don't really see it as solving the #1 problem caused when House is playing point, and that's bringing the ball up the court especially against a press. I can't see an old Hill with his bad ankles being the guy to run the ball up the court and breaking the press 10-15 times a game.


As for Wallace, I agree that I don't think he's going to give them everything Baby did. But I do think he comes cheaper, and that's probably the primary motivation behind his signing. I think Davis is going to come at the price of a 4 or 5 year deal for more than a player of his caliber is really worth. The NBA is littered with contracts like that, after all. If Baby could be had for Wallace-money, I'd absolutely rather see him on the team. But at big free agent money, no way.

I have had to correct at least two people who have asked me how exciting a starting five with Wallace, Garnett, Pierce, Allen and Rondo will be. That can't and won't be the starting five. Wallace is a positional replacement for Garnett, but not Perk. Yes, he's tall, but he is not a center and neither is Garnett, at least not on the offensive end. I don't envision Garnett and Wallace being on the floor together without Perk or another big to take up the middle. Otherwise they won't have a big post-up presence offensively, just a lot of size on the perimeter.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:11 pm 
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Large Farva wrote:
This team is not any better than last year's squad. I am not in the camp that the bench is solidified now.
I don't think that's a bad thing? Remember, they were without 2 of their big men, and arguably their most important player (for his offensive and even more so, his defensive ability, intensity and presence) and they still took Orlando, the eventual Eastern Conference champ to 7 games, where they lost at home. That, IMO, needs no improvement other than health. And you can't buy health.

So where does this make them better? I would say Wallace is a big presence in the paint with an outside shot. He can come off the bench and give you better minutes than Powe, Posey, Davis or any of the other rabble they've had in recent year. Where does it not make them better? He can guard big men and they will have to play him outside, so he can draw them out of the paint. That's huge. It's something they totally lacked this past season in the playoffs. Plus, he can play with Pierce and KG, either individually or at the same time.

The C's got the best fit with the MLE they could. Turkoglu was too expensive, O'Neal is a bust, Hill doesn't fit what the Celtics need, and Davis will probably want more than he's worth, which IMO isn't near the MLE.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:56 pm 
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I'll start off by saying that I think Wallace is a punk. I don't really care for his attitude. That said I like his game and I feel he brings better defense than Baby and he has that Posey type of outside presence. Big Baby is going to get a silly contract that the Celtics couldn't or shouldn't match. Don't get me wrong, I like Davis, but not at what he is going to get paid. I think he's reached his ceiling and what we saw is what he is...a decent player who is a nice compliment to a veteran team. Nothing more. I think Wallace will be a good citizen and he comes at an appealing price. The Celts have Allen's $19+ million coming off the books after this season and they also have Scal's $3.5 million. They stand a good chance of landing a big name after next season.

As for Hill, I don't think he's going to be a PG backup if he is signed. I think he is going to be the guy the Celtics finally have to spell Pierce and keep him fresh. Pierce was gased at the end of last season. Hill will give the Celts an opportunity to give Pierce the rest he needs. I think someone like Tyron Lue would be a decent backup at PG.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:58 am 
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RedHawkDiscGolfer wrote:
I have had to correct at least two people who have asked me how exciting a starting five with Wallace, Garnett, Pierce, Allen and Rondo will be. That can't and won't be the starting five. Wallace is a positional replacement for Garnett, but not Perk. Yes, he's tall, but he is not a center and neither is Garnett, at least not on the offensive end. I don't envision Garnett and Wallace being on the floor together without Perk or another big to take up the middle. Otherwise they won't have a big post-up presence offensively, just a lot of size on the perimeter.
Wallace can play the post or perimeter. He can also rebound well.

He won't start, you're right. Perk will absolutely be the starting center. But, depending on matchups, Wallace could easily spell for the PF or C spots. I like him as a Center, he will create a lot of matchup problems.

I like it because he can play alongside KG and Pierce. You can't say that about guys like Turkoglu. He can also play PF, which we know Shaq cannot.

He has the ability to put up a ton of points, and he can defend pretty well against another teams bigs.

IMO, this is the best possible for the Celtics bench size/depth issue.

I'm still unsure about the backup PG spot, though. I don't know if they have the cap space or if there's a viable backup out there that will take the $1.6M exception.

We'll see, but right now, if this club stays healthy, 65 wins and banner 18.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:13 am 
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mitsoxfan wrote:

I'm still unsure about the backup PG spot, though. I don't know if they have the cap space or if there's a viable backup out there that will take the $1.6M exception.



That's why when I hear people on the radio or the street say how the bench is solidified I go cross-eyed. They got away with it two years ago with Allen/Pierce bringing the ball up--Cassell, IMO, tended to be more of a liability handling the ball.

As for Hill signing as a back up for Pierce, I would like to see the kid from Tenn.-Martin get a chance to show if he can be the scorer he was in college at the NBA level.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:03 pm 
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Large Farva wrote:
That's why when I hear people on the radio or the street say how the bench is solidified I go cross-eyed. They got away with it two years ago with Allen/Pierce bringing the ball up--Cassell, IMO, tended to be more of a liability handling the ball.
They've never had a decent backup PG. And it very true they solidified their bench. It's not as complete as it could be, and I really don't want Pruitt or House being the main backup. But, IMO, this team is no worse off than they were in 2007. And, IMO, all things being equal, I think they are better.

We'll see. But I don't think Orlando got any better, and I don't think the Cavs are going to be any better with Shaq, who is at best a 15 minute stiff in the paint.

I also think that healthy, the Celtics crush the Lakers this past season. And I don't think the lakers really got that much better either. They are still a soft european style team with one go-to guy.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:16 pm 
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mitsoxfan wrote:
Large Farva wrote:
That's why when I hear people on the radio or the street say how the bench is solidified I go cross-eyed. They got away with it two years ago with Allen/Pierce bringing the ball up--Cassell, IMO, tended to be more of a liability handling the ball.
They've never had a decent backup PG. And it very true they solidified their bench. It's not as complete as it could be, and I really don't want Pruitt or House being the main backup. But, IMO, this team is no worse off than they were in 2007. And, IMO, all things being equal, I think they are better.

We'll see. But I don't think Orlando got any better, and I don't think the Cavs are going to be any better with Shaq, who is at best a 15 minute stiff in the paint.

I also think that healthy, the Celtics crush the Lakers this past season. And I don't think the lakers really got that much better either. They are still a soft european style team with one go-to guy.


I agree with you on the points about Orlando and Cleveland. Shaq is a fat turd who cannot defend the pick n roll and we saw in the playoffs how the complimentary pieces around LeBron were just not that good, and Vince Carter is just like his cousin T-Mac--you would think his talents would be to the benefit and not the detriment of the team.

I guess my concern with this team for this year and the years to come is the age/health factor, especially if they sign Hill, and I am all for trading youth for getting better, but I just don't think they really got all that better, if at all.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:18 pm 
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mitsoxfan wrote:
I don't think the Cavs are going to be any better with Shaq, who is at best a 15 minute stiff in the paint.

I'll have to disagree with that. He's not what he was in his prime, but I think Shaq is a bit better than you give him credit for as well. He was 3rd team all NBA this past season. Maybe you could say it was because of the dearth of centers in the league, but I think it's because he was motivated and play well for the Suns. 30 minutes, 17.4 points, 8.4 rebounds per game, especially at 36-37 years old, is fairly solid play. To contrast, Ilgauskas gave the Cavs 27.2 minutes, 12.9 points and 7.5 rebounds per game as their starting center.

I think he'll be as motivated playing with Lebron as he was playing with Nash and Amare, if not more so. I don't think a repeat of last season would be out of the realm of possibility for Shaq. And that would actually be an upgrade for the Cavs. Good enough to beat a healthy Celtics team? Probably not, but better than they were last year.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:59 pm 
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RedHawkDiscGolfer wrote:
mitsoxfan wrote:
I don't think the Cavs are going to be any better with Shaq, who is at best a 15 minute stiff in the paint.

I'll have to disagree with that. He's not what he was in his prime, but I think Shaq is a bit better than you give him credit for as well. He was 3rd team all NBA this past season. Maybe you could say it was because of the dearth of centers in the league, but I think it's because he was motivated and play well for the Suns. 30 minutes, 17.4 points, 8.4 rebounds per game, especially at 36-37 years old, is fairly solid play. To contrast, Ilgauskas gave the Cavs 27.2 minutes, 12.9 points and 7.5 rebounds per game as their starting center.

I think he'll be as motivated playing with Lebron as he was playing with Nash and Amare, if not more so. I don't think a repeat of last season would be out of the realm of possibility for Shaq. And that would actually be an upgrade for the Cavs. Good enough to beat a healthy Celtics team? Probably not, but better than they were last year.


Yeah I agree. He is far from a 15 min stiff. Far from his prime but certainly not a stiff.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:42 pm 
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RedHawkDiscGolfer wrote:
30 minutes, 17.4 points, 8.4 rebounds per game, especially at 36-37 years old, is fairly solid play. To contrast, Ilgauskas gave the Cavs 27.2 minutes, 12.9 points and 7.5 rebounds per game as their starting center.
What Ilgauskas gives you and what Shaq gives you are two completely different play styles. The Celtic match up against Shaq very well, much better than Ilgauskas. All Shaq gives you is a big body in the paint. He can't play the perimeter, and even if he is going to the basket he can't shoot FTs.

Sorry, but Shaq hasn't been a game changer since he was with Miami. And he's not about to get any younger or healthier.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:52 pm 
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So the introductory press conference is scheduled for 4pm.

What are the odds Rasheed picks up a technical during the presser? I mean, this guy gets T'd up in his sleep, doesn't he?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 3:29 pm 
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Apparently the deal is for three years now? I thought this was a one and done contract.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 3:37 pm 
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Large Farva wrote:
Apparently the deal is for three years now? I thought this was a one and done contract.

My understanding was that it was a 2-year deal. Never heard anything about it being a one and done. Three years isn't all that bad, I guess. Years 2 and 3 don't tie up the MLE, right? The MLE is just what gets him in under the cap for next season, at least as I understand it. So they can use the MLE again next season to reload the bench again?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 3:42 pm 
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RedHawkDiscGolfer wrote:
Large Farva wrote:
Apparently the deal is for three years now? I thought this was a one and done contract.

My understanding was that it was a 2-year deal. Never heard anything about it being a one and done. Three years isn't all that bad, I guess. Years 2 and 3 don't tie up the MLE, right? The MLE is just what gets him in under the cap for next season, at least as I understand it. So they can use the MLE again next season to reload the bench again?


I don't even pretend to try to understand the NBA at its cryptic Free Agency.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:39 am 
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I love how the NBA has a salary cap, which means it's better competitively than MLB because everybody in the NBA is on a level playing field, which is why basically the same six teams are in contention every year and teams like the Grizzlies and Clippers are always in the basement.


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 Post subject: Re: Wallace commits to Celtics
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:38 pm 
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So Davis stays and they bring in Wallace. With a healthy Perk, you now effectively (give or take) have three big men who can give you tremendous variety, both as starters and off teh bench, and Davis who plays a little bigger than he is.

I'm actually starting to get pretty excited for this upcoming season. If they can stay healthy, knock on wood, they are a legitimate shot.

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